PollAbortion becomes murder...
      – Lee J Haywood, 2009-10-22 at 16:33:29   (14 comments)

On 2009-10-22 at 16:47:38, Thelevellers wrote...
I want to say never to piss of overly relgious people, but I don;t quite believe that. I think I'm gonna go with 'Impossible to be specific', as it is definitely a case by case dilemma...
On 2009-10-22 at 16:57:00, Lee J Haywood wrote...
Most arguments centre around 'potential', e.g. that once conception has taken place the embryo has the potential to become a full person. As you say, there are plenty of cases where this wouldn't be true. Even if you try to take it to term, it may miscarry. And if it's born there may be genetic, physical or mental abnormalities to deal with.
On 2009-10-23 at 02:30:52, BorgClown wrote...
I picked after the second trimester just because if the baby went premature it has reasonable chances of survival. I really think you can't be specific, but you gotta draw a line somewhere and work from there. Anyway, why would a mother wait until the last third of pregnancy to abort?
On 2009-10-23 at 08:36:57, Lee J Haywood wrote...
@BorgClown: In terms of the choice to abort for non-medical reasons, the second trimester would be too late. I've voted at/after birth however, for the simple reason that for medical reasons a termination may be required to save the mother. This is a grey area where you would feel like you were murdering the foetus to save the mother's life, but even at the moment of birth the baby doesn't have any knowledge of the world. It has slightly more 'potential' than the initial embryo, but it's still not a full person as such.
On 2009-10-23 at 11:34:39, Bensci wrote...
lol I like the never option, including it with another option for after birth makes it sound like killing would never be murder.
On 2009-10-23 at 11:38:57, Lee J Haywood wrote...
Well saying 'at the moment of conception' is almost as extreme a position, as it suggests that there's something special about that point in life. But there isn't. Life is a continuous chain running from our first self-replicating ancestor, through our parents and into us. It's necessary for life to go through the bottleneck, reproduction from single cells, but it's only sentience and awareness of the world that makes a person 'special'. At best, a baby has some knowledge of the world once their senses are activated in the womb - that happens a long time after their conception, once their nervous system is established.
On 2009-10-23 at 23:47:04, BorgClown wrote...
Since fetuses aren't people, is it OK to eat them? http://www.ubersite.com/m/96603 Very graphic but old and fake.
On 2009-10-24 at 00:30:59, DigitalBoss wrote...
Abortion IS murder, but I believe a woman should be able to murder her baby/fetus/gooeyjunk if she wants.
On 2009-10-24 at 00:37:41, DigitalBoss wrote...
http://snopes.com/horrors/cannibal/fetus.htm
On 2009-10-24 at 15:56:26, Lee J Haywood wrote...
Certainly once you're aware of your own existence you wouldn't want anyone to take it away from you, and you can marvel at being alive in spite of all of the things that could have prevented you being here. But prior to that point, when you're not yet aware, there's not much to be lost (other than 'potential', of course).
On 2009-10-29 at 19:32:25, Scarletxstarlet wrote...
@DigitalBoss: I like your answer. I don't hear that one a lot. Is it self defense to murder your baby/fetus?
On 2009-10-29 at 20:49:39, DigitalBoss wrote...
I was trying to be pissy. Basically, I think that men should probably stay out of that whole issue. At the base level I feel about like GW Bush said, it should be legal but rare.
On 2009-11-02 at 11:33:38, Lee J Haywood wrote...
@Scarletxstarlet: Yes, that's a good way to describe it. It's somewhat crazy when people put the life of an unknowing fetus before of that of a scared, fully-aware woman. They presumably see the fetus as having more of a life ahead of it - whereas the woman has a whole life built-up and could even live much longer than her child.
On 2009-12-23 at 09:52:01, Lee J Haywood wrote...
And boo for the US military. http://jezebel.com/5431366/pregnant-servicewomen-now-face-jail-time