OpinionSince the UK has the NHS - public-funded healthcare - then the UK must therefore be a socialist society! Oh, the horror! [</sarcasm>]
      – Lee J Haywood, 2009-09-04 at 09:35:36   (55 comments)

On 2009-09-04 at 09:43:21, Lee J Haywood wrote...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/stephen-hawking-enters-us_n_257343.html Of course, even if the NHS deserts you and puts a 'cap' on the cost of preserving your life... you can still go private and pay for your own treatment if you want to. http://www.thefutureofthenhs.com/testimonials.html
On 2009-09-04 at 13:07:01, Thelevellers wrote...
Wow, thanks Lee - that made me lol... :D *agrees* (in the spirit of the sarcasm...)
On 2009-09-04 at 19:23:51, DigitalBoss wrote...
It is becoming more and more so every year.
On 2009-09-04 at 20:06:55, Thelevellers wrote...
And that thought makes me all happy and smiley.
On 2009-09-04 at 21:16:55, Austexgal wrote...
Tell me -- is it as horrible and repressive as the American political right-wing promises us it is?? We have terrified hillbillies over here!
On 2009-09-04 at 22:38:40, Thelevellers wrote...
LOL! It is completely misrepresented in the US media... I think the best response to the majority of criticism is this video I linked in another topic somewhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx02NKfmnWI OK, so there are a few mistakes made here and there, but considering the customer base is near enough the entire population of the UK, that's suddenly not so bad... I expect the error percentages would be similar if compared to the US system as a whole for example...
On 2009-09-04 at 22:46:53, Austexgal wrote...
@Thelevellers: The rumors propagated by he insurance lobby and right-wingers in America are that the government (presumably in Britain and Canada) rations health care and people die waiting in line for treatment. Also, the government has a bias against old people, since medical treatment for them is expensive; therefore, the government will want to euthanize our grandma. Seriously. That's the kind of cartoon crap some of the loonies in America are hearing and believing. The rest of the world must think we're all a bunch of hillbilly racist morons.
On 2009-09-04 at 22:47:57, Austexgal wrote...
@Thelevellers: By the way, that YouTube video is very cute! Thanks! :-)
On 2009-09-05 at 00:14:38, Thelevellers wrote...
Don't worry, I at least have encountered enough intelligent Americans on the internet to know that you're not ALL that stupid..! And Obama got in, which helps that case too... :P
On 2009-09-05 at 15:55:04, Lee J Haywood wrote...
I like this comment in the video's comments... "I don't understand the Americans - they spend more money on health care than every other nation in the world yet they don't have an efficient or practical health care system that every citizen in that country can´╗┐ be covered under. They should really be embarrassed."
On 2009-09-05 at 16:00:47, Lee J Haywood wrote...
@Austexgal: The 'government' doesn't really control the NHS - it's not like they continually pass legislation to kill grandmothers, or anything else for that matter. The NHS is just there - you use it when you need it (local GPs and large regional hospitals). Obviously the NHS has a limited budget, and there are waiting lists in areas with a lot of demand or which require specialist doctors. Of course we've always paid for it (in my generation) and don't think of it as an extra expense - in the US it requires new tax which seems like a burden. This ignores the benefit, like having a fire department that is paid for by taxes when you didn't have one before - it makes sense when you've already got it, but seems unwelcome when it's new.
On 2009-09-06 at 16:28:13, DigitalBoss wrote...
It may make you all happy and smiley, or warm and fuzzy, but many of us US Americans DO NOT want the government in the health care business, PERIOD. They screw-up everything with which they get involved, how could this be any different?
On 2009-09-06 at 16:33:33, DigitalBoss wrote...
I do not care ONE BIT what the rest of the world thinks, you can ALL go to hell. I want the government OUT of my life, not deeper into it. If you are happy with your warm and fuzzy government run bullshit, then that is fine with me, don't expect us to follow you just because you are communist and proud of it.
On 2009-09-06 at 17:19:03, Thelevellers wrote...
Not communist, socialist, there is a difference...
On 2009-09-06 at 18:42:28, Lee J Haywood wrote...
We didn't have the McCarthy witch-hunts, so we haven't been indoctrinated to see communism as inherently evil. Communism isn't an inherently bad idea, even if it cannot easily be made to work in practice. You can be part-socialist or part-communist without being a complete idiot, and labelling the US government as 'socialist' is obviously meant to be inflammatory without really making any real argument.
On 2009-09-07 at 02:27:29, DigitalBoss wrote...
The way I see it, McCarthy had it right. Many people misunderstand the whole era due to the leftist media.
On 2009-09-13 at 01:58:03, DigitalBoss wrote...
The way I see it, the former Soviet Union has in fact proven that Communism is a bad idea. For the US to not be Socialist, they sure are instituting a whole lot of Socialism. The US has in the last 60 years slipped into a whole lot more Socialism than the founding fathers would have ever imagined.
On 2009-09-13 at 06:24:31, Baslisks wrote...
@DigitalBoss: I am going to stab you in the eye for not actually having read the communist manifesto.... Russia in general is the wrong place for communism. It is supposed to be placed in a community that has high education and high mechanization. Sadly, russia had neither..... The soviet union was a cult of personality more than a communism too....
On 2009-09-13 at 07:13:15, DigitalBoss wrote...
I have read enough of the Communist Manifesto to know that it is not for me. Have you ever read the US Constitution?
On 2009-09-13 at 09:25:11, Lee J Haywood wrote...
The Soviet Union didn't prove that communism was a bad idea. They may have had a low standard of living, but they were a relatively successful superpower with a decent standing in the world community. They only failed because they overreached themselves, and as Baslisks pointed out they could have done a lot better.
On 2009-09-13 at 19:19:13, Baslisks wrote...
@DigitalBoss: part of 8th grade history and junior and senior history is devoted strictly to the governing of the United states. I did so well in the class that it was accepted as a college credit. I was accepted into law, engineering and music schools around the country. I decided on Engineering because law is to fucked up and I feel like I can do more here than anywhere else.
On 2009-09-13 at 19:23:13, Thelevellers wrote...
@Baslisks: Also, engineering rocks... :P BTT.
On 2009-09-13 at 20:25:13, DigitalBoss wrote...
@Baslicks: Do you want a cookie?
On 2009-09-22 at 10:50:41, Lee J Haywood wrote...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXyxvFINTgo
On 2009-09-22 at 17:19:17, DigitalBoss wrote...
I hate watching him, he is SO against everything for which I stand. But I watched it, just so I could argue with you over his asinine comments. First of all, he is selling another big-government program, of which we have too many already. Most Americans are happy with the healthcare and coverage that we have now, he does not mention that. We do not want big-government in our healthcare here in the US. He knows this. He is putting lipstick on a pig. Why does he not offer tort reform? Why does he not allow citizens to buy health insurance across state lines? Why does he allow state mandated coverage? These are simple changes that he could make that would not cost a dime of taxpayer money. Why? Because he wants to increase the size of government. He does not care about anyone's health. He is a big-government Democrat, and I can imagine that many of the people that put him in office are having voters remorse right now. I will say that I admire him for not perpetuating the racism remarks.
On 2009-09-23 at 15:06:24, Lee J Haywood wrote...
The reason you cannot buy insurance from another state is because there's no compatibility between them - you wouldn't get anything like the same coverage as you do from your own state. http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/041b5acaf5/protect-insurance-companies-psa
On 2009-09-23 at 19:27:13, DigitalBoss wrote...
That is because of the state mandated coverages. The industry needs to be standardized. There should be a class A product, a class B product and so forth, standardized across state lines. This is actually a constitutional power of Congress, to regulate (to make regular) interstate commerce. In this case they have dropped the ball. I suspect it is on purpose, by design. Why would they want to improve the system in a free market common sense kind of a method? They want complete takeover.
On 2009-09-24 at 01:47:06, BorgClown wrote...
For this conspiracy to fructify it would have needed the cooperation for several years of Dems and Reps, or at least negotiation between key areas. Maybe that's why it wasn't stricken down all these years, and maybe that's why the arms and war industries haven't had a setback for decades. Dem or Rep, don't trust a politician, they're all the same.
On 2009-09-25 at 17:10:42, Lee J Haywood wrote...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/14/when-getting-beaten-by-yo_n_286029.html
On 2009-09-25 at 20:18:25, DigitalBoss wrote...
"State Farm writes in to note that it has changed its policy since that 1995 Boston Globe story and no longer discriminates against victims of domestic violence." This is a 15 year old story in which action has been taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. I can't believe you actually read the Huffington Post, what a shitty place to try and learn something.
On 2009-09-25 at 20:38:59, BorgClown wrote...
It won't happen again ever, the free market will correct itself, let the people vote with their wallet! Oh wait, they already paid in advance for several years...
On 2009-09-25 at 20:51:31, Lee J Haywood wrote...
@DigitalBoss: Yes, it really is a poor source - I agree. The issue with pre-existing conditions is still relevant, however. With public health care they don't come into play.
On 2009-10-12 at 20:39:51, Lee J Haywood wrote...
http://www.momlogic.com/2009/10/baby_too_fat_for_health_insura.php No doubt there ought to be a charity to deal with special cases like this, since you wouldn't want to pay extra so that fat babies can have health insurance?
On 2009-10-13 at 02:28:24, BorgClown wrote...
Come on, fat baby denied medical insurance, that looks like an Onion article. Honestly laughing. The baby is seriously huge, though.
On 2009-10-23 at 13:33:44, Lee J Haywood wrote...
Another wonderful story from the private health insurance industry. http://blogs.babble.com/strollerderby/2009/10/19/insurance-company-tells-woman-to-get-sterilized/
On 2009-10-23 at 15:08:59, DigitalBoss wrote...
With a private health insurance provider you can go to another company if you do not like the service you receive. If they do not cover your procedure, you can pay for it out-of-pocket, or look for charitable help. When the government is THE healthcare provider, you have no choice, you take what they give you, you are stuck.
On 2009-10-23 at 15:10:26, Lee J Haywood wrote...
@DigitalBoss: That's not even true here in the UK. We have PHI and we have private hospitals.
On 2009-10-23 at 15:14:44, DigitalBoss wrote...
We will see how long that lasts.
On 2009-10-23 at 15:19:09, Lee J Haywood wrote...
@DigitalBoss: We've already had a public health system for 60 years, and private health insurance available the whole time! You could argue that there's always a need for private care, since the public system will always have limitations on what it can handle. The one time I've had to claim on my private health insurance, for an actual absence from work, they didn't pay me anything at all - it's laughable that you have no recourse if they refuse to pay up, when you'd always get some help from the public system.
On 2009-10-23 at 15:38:45, DigitalBoss wrote...
Maybe you should read your policy, maybe switch to another insurer. I am sorry, I do not believe in "public systems" aka "government systems". You should have no right to demand your health problems be paid by taxpayers at the point of a gun. With your high taxes, hidden unemployment and increasing immigration issues, I am afraid your system could be called unsustainable.
On 2009-10-23 at 15:41:55, DigitalBoss wrote...
We have the same problem with most of our government entitlement programs here, they sound real good right now, but when projected into the future, they are anything but fiscally sustainable. The only solution would be to raise taxes, that is not acceptable.
On 2009-10-23 at 15:43:35, Lee J Haywood wrote...
I didn't demand anything - the system was already in place before I was born (indeed, I was born in an NHS hospital). If anything, the opposite is true - by paying taxes we distribute the costs of future health issues between us all, without lining the pockets of those running the insurance schemes. It's well-known that profits come first in the US private health system. Yes, you can buy your own PHI and be covered - but how much of the money you give them actually benefits you when you most need help? Of course neither system seems important when you're healthy.
On 2009-10-23 at 15:52:43, DigitalBoss wrote...
You demanded it when you received services for which you did not pay.
On 2009-10-23 at 15:58:05, Lee J Haywood wrote...
My parents paid their National Insurance contributions, and I benefited from the system they helped to fund. I've been paying my NI contributions since I started work, and I'm paying them even now that I'm unemployed. We all pay for the services, and we all get equal consideration when we need help. There are no claims to be made for costs, we simply receive treatment and whatever level is required - whether it be a prescription or surgery.
On 2009-10-23 at 16:34:14, DigitalBoss wrote...
I am glad you like your program. I will bet that there are many people in your country that do not like it also. I do not believe in big government, I believe that people should pay their own way. I doubt that our government could come up with anything that actually works, they never have.
On 2009-10-23 at 16:40:51, Lee J Haywood wrote...
The key thing is to accept that no system will be perfect, and the NHS certainly isn't. There are waiting lists, things that aren't covered and you're never going to get much help for a non-specific illness. But fundamentally having public funding means that the money people put into the system goes towards medicine, not profit - private insurance can never do a better job in that sense.
On 2009-10-23 at 16:47:26, Lee J Haywood wrote...
The NHS gives me 2 things. Peace of mind - I never have to claim for anything, nor worry about not being covered at any time). And value for money - I lose a chunk of my savings, but always have and don't miss it... even with the overspending in the NHS, I know that I'll always get the same high standard of care as everyone else.
On 2009-10-23 at 17:33:48, Thelevellers wrote...
I just strongly feel the need to add a plus one to everything that Lee said, except that I'm fortunate not to have ever needed private health care.
On 2009-10-23 at 17:36:23, Lee J Haywood wrote...
@Thelevellers: I was referring private health insurance, rather than private care - it supposedly covers your absence from work due to illness. Having said that, I've known someone who simply paid to have an operation immediately rather than join an NHS waiting list - fortunately I haven't been in that position either.
On 2009-10-23 at 18:24:49, DigitalBoss wrote...
I am sure that everyone that likes higher taxes, and the feeling that you are getting something for nothing, just loves it.
On 2009-10-23 at 18:26:31, DigitalBoss wrote...
That warm and fuzzy feeling of knowing that the government is there to take care of you.
On 2009-10-23 at 23:13:52, BorgClown wrote...
Love it, oh yes. Kiss me Mr. Government!
On 2009-11-08 at 09:34:10, Lee J Haywood wrote...
http://jezebel.com/5399594/house-passes-health-care-reform-bill
On 2009-11-08 at 23:26:12, BorgClown wrote...
"Act. 219 Democrats voted in favor of the bill; only one Republican did the same." OMG, Zerg rush!
On 2010-04-02 at 11:21:17, Lee J Haywood wrote...
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1931498